Posted on July 28, 2013
God, Are You There?
Before we explore the reasons why Theistic evolution, the belief that God used evolution to create, doesn’t work, we first need to discuss how we know that God is real. Furthermore, we can’t just prove that a god (or gods) exists; rather, we need to know that God is the single, all-powerful God of the Bible. Most people do believe that there is some sort of god, but some people are atheists who believe that all we can see or touch or detect with scientific instruments is all that there is.
We know that God exists because laws of logic, or rules of reasoning, are a reflection of the way God thinks. It’s thinking about thinking . . . so think about it, will you? We can have no other source for logical thinking besides the God of the Bible. Laws of logic are rules that guide our thinking. For example, “Two contradictory statements cannot both be true” and “If A is true, than B is true. If B is true, then C is true. A is true, therefore, C must be true” are both laws of logic. We inherently know these basic rules of thinking, and they are always true for everyone, no matter where you are. We don’t have to learn them – we just know they are true.
Science is actually impossible without logic because science is just making observations and using logic to come to conclusions about those observations. Evolution does not provide a reason for logic. According to evolution, logic (as well as everything else in the universe) just “happens” to be here, and may or may not be here or function the same way tomorrow or in another few million years. Most of the founding fathers of modern science were Christians who wanted to learn more about God through exploring His creation. They expected to find order and patterns throughout creation because they knew that the God of the Bible was also a God of order and purpose. There is no logical reason for an evolutionist to expect order and patterns in the universe. Also, God commanded people to study science, because it falls within the command to “fill the earth and subdue it” given in Genesis. You see, without God – the God of the Bible – it is impossible to have science.
“According to evolution, logic (as well as everything else in the universe) just “happens” to be here”
You might want to actually open a science book and learn what the science you’re attacking actually says about the how and why of nature.
Logic cannot evolve – it’s a law of thinking (similar to laws of science like gravity). But, it all happens in our brain. Why should all the “chemical reactions” in trillions of different peoples brains over thousands of years stay the same? I understand that you may not think I am knowledgeable on the topic, but I am a geology major college student and have taken secular science classes. I had many interesting conversations with my geology professor on this topic that I think we both greatly enjoyed. Science books are all very well and fine, but they are not necessarily science. Science changes – geology textbooks now are completely different from geology textbooks thirty or forty years ago because of the advance of plate tectonics. I prefer to trust the one Book I know I can rely on no matter what – the Bible.
How do you know you can rely on the bible no matter what? And the bible has changed a lot over the years too, lots of books are no longer considered canonical and most of the old testament is ignored or rationalized away entirely.
As for laws of science and logic, they are man-made concepts, attempts to describe reality. The actual laws don’t exist, just properties. And no matter what the universe was like it would have some kind of properties. Also the properties of the universe actually do change conditionally, liquids become solids and gases, matter builds up and breaks down into different forms, and in more extreme conditions things like light are not even possible.
If you mean logic in the sense of minds capable of thinking logically, our minds evolved to perceive and think about and solve problems in the universe we inhabit, if we lived in another sort of universe we would be adapted to that universe. You may be putting the cart before the horse, perhaps the universe only seems “logical” to us because we evolved in this universe. For instance many aspects of quantum physics and cosmology baffle us and seem to defy our common sense, because the world in which we evolved and which our mind interacted with didn’t involve quantum particles or light speed or black holes. So these things are much harder for us to grasp.
Thank you for asking those questions! They are actually some of my favorites to get. Laws of logic, science, math, and even music (if you ever get a chance to study keys and the circle of 5ths, they really are incredible!) are not created by people. We just found them and try to create them. The point is that all throughout creation we find order and design in the way things work. If people evolved, then there is no good reason why the laws of logic would not be different for a native African living in a tribe and a “sophisticated” German chemical engineer. However, laws of logic are the same for everyone. That’s because we are made in God’s image
As for the Bible, yes, there are some books that have been taken from the canon, but I can’t really speak for them. I can speak for the ones we have though. If you compare the earliest original Hebrew manuscripts to our most accurate translations today, they are 98.3% exactly the same (exact statistic from Grace Mally’s book, Will Our Generation Speak?). Any error is minor and does not affect doctrine.
I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense to keep the Gospel and essentially throw out the Old Testament! It truly is a shame to see Christians doing this. I believe that the Old Testament is just a relevant to us today as the New Testament. That’s part of the reason I take my creation ministry in defending Genesis so seriously. The Old Testament is sometimes a little bit harder to understand and see direct applications to our lives, but they are there, nonetheless. I am just about to finish a summer Bible study on the Old Testament Tabernacle that I have been doing with a group from my Church. I think it is incredible to see the way the tabernacle is constantly pointing forward to the cross.
There are many reasons I know that I can rely on the Bible. It’s never been proven wrong (yes, I know you disagree with this); it claims to be the Word of God; it has endured over thousands of years (despite all the attempts to burn or ban it); it has changed the lives and hearts of more people than I can count; it applies to everyone in all times, places, etc.; it gives the answers to my deepest questions . . . the Bible is my ultimate foundation. We all have one – you see, an ultimate foundation is something you use to prove everything else, it’s like your measuring stick to determine truth. What makes the Bible a good ultimate foundation is that it supports itself.
I know that’s all probably a bit overwhelming and confusing for you, but I hope it cleared maybe a few things up. Much as I’d like to, I can’t answer you all day long because I have missions to accomplish in the non-digital world. I’m not concerned with “winning” the argument. It’s not my goal to change your mind or even your heart. I can’t do that – only God can.
By the way, I did not come up with this on my own. I never would have been clever enough to think of the existence of logic as proof of God. I heard about it from astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lisle’s writings and speeches. Ultimately, a person must believe that either matter is eternal or God (Who created the matter) is eternal. Either way it’s faith, but not all faiths are reasonable. What it really comes down to is who you trust: God’s Word or man’s word?
That is a false dichotomy. One, “god’s word” is man’s word. Second, there is an excluded third option – admitting you don’t know the answer.
Evangelical apologetics usually follows the logic of 1) convince someone all ideas are equally valid/unsupportable/faith-based etc, 2) once you’ve convinced them of that, convince them our beliefs are better (often with emotional blackmail or bribery).
All ideas are not equal and all propositions are not an either/or. Nor is the alternative always the weak tea answer that’s given as the secular alternative.
This is late, but nonetheless.. Question: if we have/are evolving into a higher enlightened state as suggested:
“our minds evolved to perceive and think about and solve problems in the universe we inhabit.”
Why are we destroying ourselves (war, murder, addictions, crime, hate, etc.) on an exponential scale? Can you answer that one?
I know the Bible is real because I experienced it for myself – a new birth of the water and the spirit. My mind used to be warped, now it is washed. Only God can change our hearts. Thanks.
Good point. It is hard (probably impossible) for atheists to understand the grace of God in our personal lives. God can change even the hardest of hearts. He certainly changed mine.
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